Transcript 0:00 We are so excited to welcome Shelby Smith-Wilson to our FemFactor Conversations. Shelby is the founder of the Fendall Collaborative and co-host of the Leadership Team podcast. 0:12 She's also a distinguished leader that formerly oversaw fifteen hundred people at the Department of State, and she has deep experience in US diplomacy. 0:21 As a senior government executive, she's worked and lived in five countries, building cross-cultural relationships and manag-managing crises. 0:28 Shelby is and always has been committed to developing leaders and helping executives keep their toolkits fresh. 0:34 And I would be remiss if I didn't mention that Shelby is also a FemFactor expert, and we are honored to have her as a part of our community, sharing her leadership experience and advice. All right. 0:45 Well, let's start with some background on your leadership experience. We're curious if you could share an example of a high pressure, pressure situation that you've led through. 0:55 We know you've done this a few times, and we're super curious as how it should play out and what did you learn from these experiences. Yes. Thank you, Rachel, for that question. 1:04 And let me just start by thanking both of you for creating this platform for women. I think it's really important to have space where we can support each other, uh, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to, to be here. 1:17 Um, when I think about a crisis or a, a, a s- a tough situation that I've had to lead through, the first thing that comes to mind is during the pandemic. 1:26 I was actually the deputy director of the operation center at the State Department, which is essentially the State Department's nine one one equivalent. 1:35 Whether you're a diplomat serving abroad, whether you're an American citizen overseas in distress, we have a phone number that anyone can call, and someone will always pick up. 1:45 And so I was the number two of that operation at the height of COVID. Mm-hmm. And that was a scary time because, as you all know, everything shut down. Everything changed. 1:58 And even in the US government, we had to find new ways to continue doing our work. And one of the responsibilities of the operations center is to also support the Secretary of State 2:10 and other high-level C-suite equivalent officials at the State Department. And so we didn't have an option to shut down. 2:17 So what that meant was we needed to come up with different ways to manage our operation to continue operating at full speed. And it was a challenge because, at that time, we didn't know what COVID was. 2:30 There weren't any shots. There weren't any immunizations to give. We didn't know how contagious it was. 2:35 We just knew that we needed to continue providing a service to the Secretary of State and to be a lifeline for American citizens abroad and our missions abroad, our embassies and our consulates, who depended on having, uh, a central node that they could reach, 2:52 you know, to get information. I needed to come up with a system in order for our staff to continue showing up in person, and that meant, you know, discussing personal health situations with each individual. 3:05 Of course, being mindful of, of privacy considerations and, you know, the fact that we couldn't force people to come to work. But at the same time, we needed to find a way to continue running the operations center. 3:19 And so that stretched me and my boss and the other members of our leadership team in ways that-- I mean, I look back on that experience, and I'm like, "How in the world did we manage it?" 3:29 Because, of course, there were people on our staff who were immunocompromised. Uh, there were some people on our staff who were living with relatives, elderly relatives. 3:39 There were people on our staff who, who were just afraid, um, of, of what COVID meant and whether they, 3:46 whether they should continue risking their health potentially, uh, to continue, to continue working in, in the operation center. 3:53 We had to come up with, you know, very sensitive ways to communicate information, ways to convey, you know, we need you. You are essential staff. 4:01 And at the same time, we want to meet you where you are in terms of what's going on with your family situation. And if there is a reason why you cannot show up in person, you know, we will work that out. 4:12 We will come up with responsibilities that can be handled virtually, you know, in a remote setting. Um, but for those who can come into work, you know, we need you to come in. 4:22 And I think the key to that was my boss and I, we were able to show humanity, and we were able to communicate consistently, even when we didn't have answers for people in terms of, you know, will you have masks? 4:36 How will you ensure, you know, that I don't get COVID, et cetera? We needed to plus up our staff. 4:42 We needed to call in people who had worked in the operation center before in order to give relief to our staff so that they would not get burnt out. 4:52 And we ended up having to come up with a satellite operation center so that we could safely distance our personnel so that there would be no risk of cross-contamination. 5:04 We had some team members who never saw other team members in person. We had blue teams and red teams to make sure that everyone was safe. And it was a Herculean effort. 5:15 But again, it required, I think, a lot of empathy, a lot of communication, a lot of understanding, and a lot of self-awareness on the part of myself and my boss to be able to know how to meet people where they were and, and frankly, to not be afraid to say, "Hey, I don't know the answer to that, but I commit to you that I will find the answer, and we'll get through this together." 5:38 And in terms of what I learned, you know, I learned to be honest with, with people. I think I've always been-- I've always considered myself to be an honest broker. 5:47 But in a situation like that, where the stakes are so high and people don't know what the next day is going to bring and the health crisis that we were managing, you know, as a, as a global community, it was just really important to, to To just keep it straight with people and continue communicating. 6:05 To not take it for granted that one conversation was sufficient to get our points across, but to continue repeating messages, even if it was the exact same message over and over again. 6:15 That consistent communication, I think, was one of the key lessons that I learned from that experience. Thank you, first off. 6:21 Thank you for leading during potentially one of the most challenging and uncertain times of our lifetimes. That is truly 6:33 a, like you said, a Herculean task with so many unknowns going through everyone's minds and still having to right the ship and keep everyone executing and, like you said, providing security and support for the United States government employees at home and abroad. 6:48 It's, um... I, I, I really appreciate the takeaway of communication and honesty coming, coming to the, the height of leadership, particularly during a time that there were so many unknowns. 7:03 The next question we have is, throughout your career, you weren't always in a board meeting or an office or in the same location attempting to lead the same team or, you know, just launch a product, right? 7:16 You were leading in the field in five different countries. How did the change in the geographic and cultural environments affect how you lead, if it does? It absolutely does. 7:27 It's a great question because I think one of the keys to effective leadership is knowing that there's no one-size-fits-all approach. 7:35 As a leader, I think it's important for you to know what your North Star is and to have a sense of your values and how you choose to lead, what your personal leadership philosophy is. 7:46 But in every situation, you have to adapt to the people that are around you. The operating environment will require some tweaks and adjustments to how you lead. 7:55 And I think that was partly one of the keys to success for me, at least in my leadership position in Spain, was treating that situation differently or approaching it differently than I had previous assignments. 8:09 Usually, when I tell people that I worked in Spain, they're like, "Oh, so sorry for you that you had that terrible, you know, destination to, to work in." 8:17 And I will admit, you know, the, the quality of life was spectacular. The food was great. All of those things, yes, yes. The wine, the cheese, all of that. All of that was wonderful. 8:27 And at the same time, the operating environment was... It was different. Spain, as many people know, is it's a member of NATO, it's a member of the European Union. And in that culture, it means... 8:39 It meant for me having to shift my approach from a bilateral mindset to a, a multilateral mindset. 8:47 Um, and what I mean by that is, in previous assignments, most of the diplomatic relations were, were based on, you know, what does country X want in relation to the United States, and vice versa. Spain was different. 9:01 It wasn't good enough for me to just frame US priorities or challenges or whatever it is that we needed Spain to do in the sense of, "Okay, Spain, if you do this, then it means that for the United States." 9:15 It was always in the context of, what does this mean for Europe? Or how can we work with Spain to advance some of our US interests in the Middle East? Or how can we work with Spain to advance our interests in Venezuela? 9:30 And so it required an adjustment for me in terms of, okay, how can I use the diplomatic tools in my arsenal to make sure that I'm advancing US interests while keeping in mind how Spain sees itself on the global stage, because that was very important to the government there at the time that, that I was there. 9:47 And what is happening domestically in Spain in terms of how will they react to certain requests from the United States based on their own domestic political environment. 9:59 Um, and having to take all of those considerations into play will affect, or it should affect, you know, how I approach leadership or how I, how I approach my job. 10:10 And in addition to that, the makeup of every embassy is different. 10:14 In, in Spain, we had several different, uh, US government agencies, a lot of law enforcement agencies, but also, you know, we had the D- Department of Agriculture represented, the Department of Commerce, and we had the Department of Homeland Security. 10:27 Um, there was a huge security nexus in Spain because they are such good partners on a lot of our counterterrorism objectives, as well as, you know, some of our democratic ex- objectives in the Western Hemisphere. 10:39 There was just a very broad swath of mutual interests that we were pursuing. 10:43 And so because of that, I had to approach my assignment in Spain completely differently than how I approached it in Panama, for example, a previous leadership assignment that I had, where a lot of the focus was mainly on commerce. 10:57 Who's sending what through the Panama Canal, and how can the United States influence the Panamanian government in a way that is beneficial to US commercial interests? 11:06 And so that required a different, um, a, a different approach in terms of, you know, how I interacted with Panamanian government officials, as well as my counterparts within the US Embassy community. 11:18 I think it's so interesting that you are constantly in complex environments, but as you described Spain, it was almost like there were layers, new layers of complexity because there were more stakeholders involved in the conversations. 11:32 Are there specific tactics or operational strategies that you employed either just for yourself to wrap your mind around the different stakeholders' points of view and then translating it into influence, um, because of the layers of complexity that were there? 11:50 Yes. I think any, any US diplomat knows that relying on local staff, we have local staff at every embassy, they are the keys to success. 12:02 Like, to the extent that you can develop relationships with your local staff and treat them with respect And acknowledge their expertise and their, their know-how. 12:13 They are the experts on how, you know, their, their countries operate. 12:18 And I think sometimes, and I've seen this happen with, with some of my colleagues, we, we go to places and we assume that, you know, we're the smartest person in the room. We've got all the answers. 12:27 You know, there are these metaphors about the ugly American showing up in places and, you know, just kind of throwing their weight around like they know everything, and that's the exact opposite of, of how you should approach your, your diplomatic assignment. 12:40 It's really in any job occupation, I think it's important to have a certain level of humility, and not in a way that reduces your self-confidence or your abilities, but just knowing that you don't have all the answers. 12:53 We had someone on, on our staff who's very dear to me, and I'm still in touch with her to this day. 12:58 She was the political specialist at the embassy, and early in my tenure, I made a priority of, of having coffee with her once a week. She was a direct report, but I used those coffee meetings to, to get to know her. 13:12 Uh, and we would do it in Spanish. I would force myself to speak to her in Spanish even though her English is better than my Spanish. 13:18 Um, but that helped me with my language skills, but it also helped me to kind of pick up on cultural nuances. It helped her to open up to me more. 13:26 Um, you know, the fact that I was making an effort to speak to her in, you know, my, my broken Spanish sometimes. 13:32 But I think that kind of broke the ice with her in a way that it just helped our relationship and helped build trust early in our relationship, and I think that is so important in any leadership position. 13:44 You have to find people who can help you, people who are smarter than you about, you know, whatever the thing is that you're trying to tackle. Who on your team is the expert about a particular thing? 13:55 And how can you empower them to kind of lead in, in that lane and show them, you know, the respect, the deference that they're due because of their expertise. 14:06 That definitely helped me in Spain, and really in, in all of my assignments, just humbling myself and, and getting to know people and having people teach me things about their culture, uh, that I, I simply couldn't pick up from reading a book. 14:20 I hear so much humanity in the way that you talk about your leadership perspective, and so much care for the interpersonal and the social influences that are taking place. 14:31 I'm curious if there was something that shaped that for you. That's a great question. It actually reminds me of a conversation that I've had with my podcast co-host when it comes to leadership. 14:42 Is it something that's learned? Is it something that's just intrinsic in you? 14:46 Um, and I think it's a combination for, for me in, in, in terms of, uh, your question on how did I, I, uh, kind of incorporate this humane approach, uh, to leadership. I, I do think some of it is intuitive, um, to me. 15:00 It's, it's just the, the way that I am and, and the way that I've always been. Um, but I, I definitely credit, uh, my mother, uh, and, and several mentors that I've had throughout my career. 15:12 My mom always, um, she's, she's always been proud of me and has always encouraged me, you know, to do my best and, and to, to challenge myself. 15:22 Um, but she's always taught me, you know, to, to not aim to be the smartest person in the room. And one of my kind of personal mantras is, "Smart people surround themselves with smarter people." 15:36 And I attribute that to lessons from my mother. 15:39 And again, it wasn't to, you know, insult my intelligence, but just to remind me, "Hey, there's always going to be someone who's, who's better at something than, than you are. See what you can learn from them. 15:50 You know, don't be intimidated by that. If anything, use that as a tool for, for growth." Um, so she instilled that in me, um, at an early age. 16:00 And I would also say that I've been blessed to have good mentors, um, at the State Department, and a few good teachers, uh, along the way as well. 16:09 But, um, there are a handful of mentors that come to mind, uh, that I met early in my career, uh, who instilled those, those values in me and who taught me or, or reminded me to, to think about each environment that I would be entering, you know, to, to shine a light, shine a different light on American culture and, you know, to be proud of what I represent, but to also show deference to, to other people, um, and respect for their cultures, and to, you know, make sure that we treated the local staff the way that they deserve to be treated because, you know, there are horror stories of, of how people, how leaders have not treated our local colleagues abroad the way that they should have. 16:49 And that was, was something that some of my mentors instilled in me early on in my career. So I credit, credit them with, with that as well. That makes so much sense, and it does sound... 16:59 It goes almost counterculture to what I've heard some people say about becoming either a leader or positioning yourself as an expert, is that you want to s- to rise to the top. 17:10 You wanna be somehow above everyone else, and you need to be better- Right... than everyone. What you're saying sounds so much more of a lead by example type of mindset. Mm-hmm. 17:20 And it re- it really resonates with me because I've had some people in my own career sphere who've led from those different types [chuckles] of perspectives. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 17:31 And the ones that always were able to rally the teams in these very stressful, difficult crunch times, like you were talking about during the pandemic, were the ones who led by example, who recognized the humanity in their teams and were not trying to squash anyone into some submissive role. 17:48 But rather the ones that were-- Everyone believed when they said, "We are in this together, and I am here to help." 17:55 So I, I just, I appreciate hearing that there's an alternative to that rise to the top, and that you've been able to live it and, um, that it's not, like, second to some other method. 18:09 I appreciate that because I think sometimes there's a risk to being yourself, and I I am an introvert, and I have learned over time how to use my introversion, uh, as a superpower. 18:23 And, you know, in the world of diplomacy, especially as a foreign service officer, I've been told many times, even by some of my mentors and, and some of my supervisors, "You need to speak up. 18:34 You know, you need to be more assertive in, in certain meetings. You need to be more aggressive." That is not me. That's just not how I operate. 18:42 Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not a pushover, and anyone who [chuckles] has been on my team knows I have extremely high standards of excellence, that I bring excellence, you know, to everything that I do. 18:54 By no means whatsoever, you know, am I asleep at the wheel and just letting people run over me. I don't think I would've been able to get as far in my career if, if that were the case. 19:04 Um, but at the same time, I do believe, you know, in bringing a human touch. And sometimes leadership doesn't need to be loud. 19:11 You know, leadership and influence doesn't necessarily come from the loudest person in the room, and I have been able to use my judgment to figure out, okay, when is it time to pound the table? 19:24 Because there are certainly times when I have done that and spoken up. But I've been able to do it in a way that's respectful, and in a way that maintains my influence, and in a way that doesn't cut other people down. 19:34 It's very important to me to not belittle anyone. I feel like you can always get your point across, whether in public or private, without demeaning, you know, someone else. 19:45 That's, that's just always been very important to me. Can you talk a little bit more about your introversion being a superpower? [laughs] We're both... [laughs] Yeah. We're both introverts. I'm very introverted too. 19:57 [laughs] Yes, I, and I've read, I've read books about this. One of the books, I think it's called Quiet Power. I think one of the superpowers of, of being an introvert is that I'm able to observe. 20:10 You know, the power of observation and the power of listening, I think, are two underrated tools in everyone's toolkit. You know, there's this phrase of reading the room, like, you know, is that really a thing? 20:21 Is it not? I think it is a thing. Mm-hmm. I think I, I am able to, to read a room and know, okay, Shelby, this is your opportunity to go ahead and, and say something, you know, right now. 20:33 I, I do think that reading energy and knowing different personalities, using your own self-awareness and your intuition and your judgment, all of that has, has come into play, uh, for me as, as an introvert. 20:48 Especially in leading, sometimes you, you do need to shut up and be an active listener, you know, in order to get results out of your team members, in order to, to really understand where they're coming from. 21:01 And again, that's not to be overly touchy-feely or, or mushy or, or, or any of that. It's not emotional. It's, it's, it's a tool that I think more leaders should 21:14 adopt, you know, when it comes to being quiet and letting other people talk, so that you can understand where they're coming from, and so that you can adjust, you know, your style or whatever it is that needs to be done in order to move the needle with members on your team when it comes to getting t- you know, tasks done or just understanding where they're coming from. 21:37 I think that, you know, the power of listening is, is, is an underrated superpower, and, and one of the superpowers that comes naturally to me as an introvert. 21:47 I love the idea of tying getting results to introversion as a superpower. I, I think that's somewhat revolutionary, at least in the general zeitgeist for leadership. Mm-hmm. 22:00 But I fully feel it and, um, um, love hearing your stories and appreciate it because I think it's so important. 22:07 I- like you said, introverts are often, you know, cast aside or there's a sort of a negative connotation with- Yeah... 22:14 being, uh, having a introverted personality, but there are so much power and discernment that comes along with that. Really, really get results. 22:25 I think as a leader, hearing you quickly get to how I interact with my team makes so much sense because you can't do much alone, so the ability to lead other people is actually es- is really essential, and actually not always a part of a leadership conversation, which is- Yeah... 22:44 seems, seems contradictory, but- Exactly. Yeah. We're curious if you could share an example of adversity that you faced and let us know about how you handled it. Yeah. That's, that's a good question. 22:57 I'm, I'm taking a writing class right now, um, and each day there's, there's a question that you're supposed to respond to for 30 minutes, and it's been interesting because a lot of the responses that have come up for me have to do with being a student at a private school, um, for high school. 23:20 I, I went to high school in New Hampshire, and it's interesting. 23:24 I don't know if it's because I was laid off recently and I'm kind of in this life transition phase, and I'm reflecting a lot on how did I even get to be, you know, the Shelby that exists right now, and I've been reflecting a lot on my growth journey. 23:41 Um, and a lot of pivotal moments happened, uh, at Exeter. 23:46 And so when I think about adversity, um, there's certainly a number of professional examples that, that I could give, but I think I'll share a story from when I was at Exeter. 23:56 I was applying for, for colleges, you know, my senior year, and I didn't do well on the SAT. I did not do well on the SAT. I am not a good test taker. Right. When it comes to standardized tests, that is just not my jam. 24:11 I can write, I can analyze, yes, but test taking is not my thing. 24:15 And so I bombed the SAT, and my college counselor, as we were coming up with my list of schools, I had a mix of schools in, in Virginia as well as, you know, a couple of Ivy League schools. 24:26 There were seven of, of varying, um, levels of prestige, let's just say. And my college counselor, I, I'll never forget, she was like, "You know, you're not gonna get into any of these schools. 24:37 You need to redo your entire list, um, because this is-- n- none of this is realistic." And I was just like, "Oh, okay. Well, you know, my grades are okay." 24:48 I had a decent, uh, GPA, participated in a lot of extracurricular ac- activities. 24:54 I'm not an athlete, but I was able to manage our basketball team at my high school, which was really cool because I got to travel, uh, with the team and, you know, kind of keep score or, or help them keep track of their statistics, which was great. 25:09 I was very involved, um, in the community. So when looking at the sum total of my background, I was a great student. 25:17 I was a, a very competitive student, and she refused to see all of those other things and told me repeatedly, "You are not gonna get into any of these schools." 25:28 And I called home and, you know, cried to my mom, like, you know, "I have worked my butt off for the past four years at this very [chuckles] 25:36 difficult, challenging academic institution, and my college counselor is telling me that I'm not gonna get into college." And my mom said, you know, "Don't, don't listen to her. We're going to, to pray over this." 25:51 I'm, I'm a person of faith. 25:53 And she, you know, told me that, you know, God would not bring me this far to just let me self-destruct, and that we were going to continue along the path that I had chosen, that she had faith in me, and that that was it, that we were not going to change course. 26:08 That, you know, to continue, continue along the path that, that I had set for myself. And lo and behold, I got into all of those schools. I was waitlisted at one of them, but eventually was offered admission. Hmm. 26:20 And so that was, that was just an early test for me, and I, I reflect on that a lot because I think it was a good lesson at an early age. 26:28 I was only 17, you know, when that happened, when someone told me to my face, "You are not good enough." That has just been a motivator in the back of my mind. 26:38 I, I feel like I've, I've overcome so much already, um, that nothing, nothing is really going to stop me from accomplishing my goals except me. Well, I-- That-- It's a fantastic arc and a ending to the story. 26:54 I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about how that moment specifically lights a fire for you. Hmm. Yeah. Um, I think 27:04 that moment lights a fire for me, and I've, I've been thinking about that moment in particular a lot recently because my co-host, um, on the Leadership Tea podcast, she asked me a few months ago, "Who is Shelby when she's unconstrained?" 27:16 And that question, I think, is, is such a powerful one because it forced me to think about Exeter. 27:26 And, you know, when I think of Shelby unconstrained, she's the 14-year-old girl who left Richmond, you know, to go to this fancy school that no one in her family had ever heard of. 27:36 Um, and Shelby unconstrained is the person who continued to apply for the schools that she applied to when her college counselor told her that she would never get in. And so thinking about 27:47 Shelby unconstrained has really helped me right now in my life as I'm facing a different, a different type of personal adversity. 27:56 Having been laid off from the State Department after what was, by all indications, a successful, you know, 26-year career, um, and having to reinvent myself, I'm, I'm having to remind myself, "Okay. 28:11 Well, who have you been in other moments of adversity, and what did you do in, in those moments to get you to the other side?" Um, and so I've been journaling and reflecting a lot on those experiences. 100%. 28:26 I mean, I think the advice to find yourself unconstrained is so insightful and also actionable because you can envision your 14-year-old selfs. We all can. Yes. 28:37 Or whenever we hit that moment where we were brave and unconstrained and hadn't been jaded or, or been told we can't yet. Right. And I think that is such a helpful visualization. 28:48 It comes so quickly to mind as soon as you mention the exercise. How are you going about choosing what to do next? Yes. Ooh, I feel like that could be a complete- [chuckles] [laughs] complete episode in and of itself. 29:01 It's, you know, there are good days and bad days, and I, I would be lying if I didn't say that, you know, right now I'm probably in kind of a downward slump. 29:10 I think it's mainly becau- well, I know it's mainly because of the furlough that a lot of federal government employees are, are facing right now. And it's not just people who live in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area. 29:24 There are so many ripple effects. If, if you've tried to take a flight [chuckles] recently, I'm sure that has not been the most pleasant experience. 29:33 Um, and then, you know, the second order effects on businesses in our communities, you know. If, you know, people don't have paychecks, they're not gonna go out to eat as much. 29:43 They're not going to spend as much money on clothing. Th- they're not gonna have disposable income for entertainment options. 29:49 And so there are just so many, so many impacts on our economy and our society, and I think when I start reflecting on all of that, sometimes it's a little, it's a little overwhelming. And so what I've been doing 30:03 recently is trying to find a project for each month. Actually, and, and I was doing this before, before the furlough when, when I was laid off in July. I just kinda looked at the calendar and said, "Okay. 30:16 How am I going to manage my time?" Um, not in, in a, in an attempt to overschedule myself, but just knowing who I am and what my personality is like. 30:26 You know, I, I knew that I would drive myself and my husband crazy if I just, you know, stayed at home doing nothing. And so, you know, August was all about Launching our daughter to college. 30:38 She just started at Virginia Tech, and so all of my energy was focused on her, making sure that her transition was as smooth as possible, and that was great. It, it was. 30:49 And then in September, I kind of set a personal goal of, okay, what do I need to do to get either the podcast going or the coaching business going? And so that meant doing a lot of coffee meetings. 31:03 And you know, to be honest, in July I was not... I wasn't really trying to talk to anybody. I was not in the mood to rehash what had happened to me and what was I doing and all of that. 31:14 I just didn't wanna talk to people about that. 31:16 But I knew that I couldn't stay in my shell for, for too long, and once my daughter was launched into college, I didn't have the excuse of, "Oh, I'm working, you know, to launch my daughter into college." 31:26 Uh, so in September I started, you know, networking, setting up meetings with, with people. Um, I looked on my LinkedIn profile and said, "Okay, who is working in some of the industries that might make sense for me? 31:38 Who can I reach out to, to get their recommendations on other people that I should be talking to?" 31:44 And so that led to, you know, a series of, you know, one-on-one coffees just to kinda get a sense of, "Hey, what are you doing? You know, how did you get to this particular point? Do you have advice for me?" 31:56 Uh, et cetera. I started going to women's events. In fact, that's how I met you, Rachel. Um, a few months prior to being laid off, we met at a wi- a women's business center event. 32:09 Um, I think it's the Springfield chapter that's affiliated with George Mason University. But anyway, started going to more events and kind of putting myself out there. And then for the month of October, 32:22 I'm focused on an event that my co-host, uh, and I are hosting at The Salamander in Middleburg. It's called Repose. We, we just thought we need to find a way to bring people together. 32:34 There are so many, you know, virtual workshops and Zoom meetings and, and different things that are being offered remotely, but sometimes you just need to be in community with people in person. 32:46 And so most of my efforts this month have been focused on having this in-person event at The Salamander to give people an opportunity to just breathe and reflect and to be in a safe space where they can talk about some of their personal challenges, but also connect with other people, perhaps network, perhaps, you know, build a new community. 33:06 Um, but we just thought it was really important to bring a small group of people together, and so all of my energy has been focused on that. 33:13 I haven't really figured out what I'm gonna do in November apart from taking a personal trip by myself just to get away for a few days. 33:20 I decided I didn't wanna be in this area on the last day of my employment, when my employment officially ends, and so I'm gonna take a trip. Then I'll come up with a project in December. 33:31 Um, but in between all of that, I've also been intentional about getting rest and being comfortable with being quiet. There are some days where I just, I don't do anything. 33:42 You know, I get up in the morning, I may go to the gym, I may check emails, I'll brainstorm. 33:49 But really learning to not overschedule myself and being comfortable in quiet, it's an important part of this journey, um, for me to be able to figure out and discern what is next. 34:00 And then the last thing I'll mention is that I'm reading the Bible. 34:04 I am not here to proselytize or, or anything like that, but for me in my personal journey, um, my sister-in-law asked me earlier in the year would I be interested in doing a Bible reading plan with her. 34:18 I had no idea that it would be so timely and, and needed, but, um, that has definitely, beyond a doubt, kept me sane. Thank you for sharing that. 34:31 I, I think it's very helpful and needed reminder that there are different parts of ourselves that need to be maintained during these types of transitions, and that, you know, there's the intellectual part, there's the emotional part, there's the spiritual part that's really important to tap into when we are in a new place, I think. 34:55 So I appreciate you telling us all of them, uh, because it is really a, a holistic approach that, that's gonna get us where we need to go next, I think. I think we get in trouble when we kind of only focus on one. 35:08 Um, and that's, uh, just a really wise way to divide up time and center yourself. So we really appreciate you sharing your time, becoming a Fem Factor expert. 35:21 I am so happy we randomly sat next to each other at that event. 35:24 I really appreciate the, the honesty and, I mean, it's no surprise considering you were telling us at the very beginning that that's just part of who you are, but thank you for sharing that with us. 35:33 Do you wanna share where people can find you now? Oh, yes. People can follow me on, uh, the Leadership Tea podcast on, on YouTube. It's also available on Spotify and Apple. 35:45 It started out as kind of a community service project, and as it has continued and evolved and as our followership has been very loyal and faithful, we're like, "Okay, we're onto something here." 35:57 I also have a blog on Substack. It's called Shelby Said What? And then I have my personal, uh, coaching business, the fendallcollaborative.com. Excellent. Thank you so much, and, uh, we will be in touch. 36:11 As always, great to see you. Thank you. Thanks so much. This was great.
