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Jul 25, 2026
Leaving Big Law to Start Something New with Megan Senese
Leaving Big Law to Start Something New with Megan Senese
00:00
24:44
Transcript
0:00
Today, we're joined by Meghan Senese, co-founder of Stage, a woman-owned business development and marketing boutique that helps law firms, lawyers, and professional services companies build stronger relationships and drive revenue.
0:13
After years in Big Law, Meghan made an unexpected move. She quit, and just two weeks later, co-launched Stage, which she's now been building for the past three years. Welcome, Meghan. We're so- Thank you...
0:23
happy to have you. Thank you. It's always weird to hear your bio read to you. Like, sitting there, sitting through it, you're like, "Oh, yeah. Ugh, yeah."
0:31
It's just, that's the part where even if I consider myself to be super extroverted, but then there's moments where I'm like-- where people are like, "Oh, I read what you wrote," or, "Here's your bio read back to you," you're like, "Oh, yeah.
0:43
Ugh, uh, cringy." Feels cringy. It's funny, I spoke to a woman, uh, Hannah Pryor, this morning, who wrote the book called "Good Awkward," and she talks...
0:52
[chuckles] That's like all she talks about is these moments, and I thought that was very helpful. I was like, "I could definitely use a book on that." Mm-hmm. I love that.
0:59
I've been telling my kids, "The weirder, the better. Just be weird. Just, [chuckles] like, just lean into the, to the weirdness." Yeah, I, I, um, I have my kids saying, "Everyone is weird.
1:09
Being weird is just being your normal self." And I'm like, "Stick with that." Yeah. So, all right.
1:14
So read your bio, and we speak to a lot of women who are either in transitions professionally or thinking about it, and you did it. You took the leap of faith. Yeah. Left Big Law. You were comfortable there for a while.
1:26
Can you tell us what finally pushed you to go out on your own, and what that transition looked and felt like? Yeah.
1:34
It's hard to even, like, remember what it felt like at that point because it was pretty shitty, to be honest.
1:42
And I think right before we popped on, we were talking about COVID, and COVID was the, like, the big catalyst for looking for something else.
1:49
And the reason for that was that I was looking for that next step in my career. I'm-- was in Big Law. I'm not a lawyer. I'm business development and legal marketing.
1:58
So for, for law firms, it's essentially where you're behind the scenes.
2:02
You're helping and supporting the lawyers, and the lawyers have tremendous amount of pressure, and like any organization, that pressure just keeps, like, trickling kind of down.
2:11
So during COVID, it was probably the hardest I've ever worked in my entire career, and I also feel like that's saying a lot. I put myself through college.
2:19
I worked two jobs, a full, like, two full-time jobs when I went through school, and just my Gallup strength is achiever and discipline, so, like, to say that COVID was the hardest I ever worked was, like, really just grinding, grinding away.
2:32
And it wasn't necessarily that I didn't wanna work hard, as people kept qui- people kept quitting, and I got an entire person's job.
2:42
And my firm did compensate me, actually pretty, pretty highly for that person's full-time job.
2:49
But I was still doing two people's jobs, and I still had two kids at home during COVID with no childcare, and my husband and I were working full-time, and I had just kinda had an-enough and had reached this point where I had said, "This is not sustainable.
3:03
You had asked me if I could t- cover this person's job for, you know, three months." You s- "Let's revisit it." We revisit it, and you were like, "Oh yeah, we weren't actually asking you. We're telling you."
3:13
And so that became this push to start looking outward for... I wanted to leave legal. My boss at the time was like, "You need to go." Like, "I support you. I'll help you."
3:24
Um, and that boss at the, at the time is actually now my business partner. It was this, like, kind of long journey.
3:30
So, like, outwardly, from people who are looking at my story, you know, I love to say, "And two weeks later, we launch," 'cause it's good marketing t-talk.
3:38
But really, this was, like, a three-year kind of journey, if you really-- really, if I really d-dove into it. And
3:47
I remember interviewing for all of these positions that were sort of related to, to legal marketing, so it was, like, a legal tech company.
3:54
I would've helped them with their business development and their legal marketing, and I think at the point, they were offering me 50% less than what I was making at the big firm. And I was like, "I'll take it."
4:04
And they're like, "Yeah. Like, we really just don't think you're gonna, like, be here for the long haul with, like, that low.
4:10
Like, you put this number," which was already lower than what I had been making, but I was like, "I'll just take anything to, like, start a new position, get out of being inside a firm. I've never sold anything before.
4:20
I understand where I'm coming from." [chuckles] And they were like, "Yeah, we really don't think you're, like, gonna be happy here."
4:28
And, you know, a couple months later, I left for zero dollars and launched my own business. [chuckles] So I always think that's, like, a funny story, and you know, here we are three years later.
4:36
It, it is crazy to think back, like, in hindsight, that I took this huge jump. I appreciate you telling the story in detail because I think it's typically a confluence of things that pushes women out.
4:51
It's not, like, one experience. It's, like, a sustained exhaustion because of multiple factors, and it's always a little bit different based on where you're coming from.
5:01
But the feeling is the same, where it's like- Mm-hmm... it's not sustainable is a refrain we hear all the time, or, like, the math stopped math-ing, and we were like, like, we gotta figure something else out.
5:14
So- Yeah, and it was a huge financial risk, right? Like, I could've just kept going, making more money. I mean, Big Law pays very nicely. There's golden handcuffs, whether you're a lawyer or support staff.
5:25
I was paid a, a lot of money, and it was this huge family decision, essentially, to, to try and make this, what still feels like this ins-insane jump, this insane risk of just dump-jumping off into the deep end with pretty much nothing.
5:39
I'll just reiterate that it's so true for anyone. I feel ins... It's in- it feels insane, and then you feel insane. Speaking from my perspective, [chuckles] I still feel insane.
5:47
[chuckles] Like, I'm like, "What am I doing?" Mm-hmm. Like, the, you know, I went from making good money to not making any money. Mm-hmm. And it actually becomes harder the longer I've done it. But anyway, I digress.
5:59
Um, can you tell us about- Well, you have to be a little crazy. You have to be a little, like, absurd to believe that it's gonna work, and- You... I'm like, am I delulu?
6:07
Like, is this, like- You have to be, yeah Yes, it's fine. I actually talk about, actually, I talk about that in my podcast. I did a mini episode that came out last week where I'm like, you have to be a little bit
6:21
absurd, delusional in this idea, in this dream that it's going to work. Because the only person that is really going to make it happen is you.
6:30
So you have to be a little bit, like, outrageous in knowing, like, I'm going to launch this thing. I'm going to create this thing. I'm gonna put everything into this thing, and I believe it's gonna work.
6:41
Even if, like, no one is believing, you have to believe it, and it has to be... Yeah, you have to be delusional. Do that. I think that's great. 100%. I'm fully there. [laughs] Yeah. I'm there. Uh, all right.
6:50
Would you mind telling us a little about, uh, how Stage got formed? You, you mentioned that your partner- Yeah... you, you used to work with. I'm curious. Yeah.
6:58
So at the time, we were an entire department, so there was three of us. Now there's just two of us when we launched. Um, and we all gave notice at the same time, at the same day, and, um, the firm was not pleased.
7:12
And so essentially what happened was my partner, Jen Ramsey, said, "I have this idea." Actually, she put something on my calendar for a Friday afternoon, and it said, "Good news, I promise."
7:22
'Cause I was sort of like, "I'm obviously getting fired," right? Like, anytime, like, a calendar shows up on a Friday, you're totally getting fired.
7:29
And so her concept was, imagine if we can do the type of work we like to do with the people that we like to do it, like, whenever we wanna do it. And I'm like, "Uh-huh. Like, what is that?" Like- Mm-hmm...
7:41
I would love that, but, like, that doesn't exist. And she's like, "No, I'm, I'm saying we, we create it." And my question at the time was, "So you want me to come and work for you?"
7:52
And she was like, "Not for me, with me." And at that point I had been reporting up to her. And so that's essentially, like, how it came to be. We, we worked in stealth mode for a really long time,
8:04
weekends and nights and all the things while we were still employed. I said, I said yes immediately. And she's like, "Don't you wanna, like, maybe think about it?" [laughs] I'm like, "No, no, I'm in."
8:15
Um, I had a panic attack, like, the entire weekend of being like, "I'm gonna quit my job, I'm gonna quit my job, I'm gonna quit my job, how am I gonna quit my job? I can't believe I'm gonna quit my job."
8:22
And by Monday I was like, "Yeah, no, I'm in, like, let's do this." And that was, like, pretty much it. The rest was history. It was, like, the easiest decision I have ever made, but I don't think...
8:32
You know, I had been looking for a while, and I had all of this, like, soul searching and going on these interviews. They were bigger, bigger pay, bigger title, bigger firms.
8:42
And being like, ah, this still doesn't, like, this is everything I had worked for, to, like, move up in AM Law ranking, to move up in title, to get 20, 30% more salary, which is what I did every single time I jumped, negotiate the shit out of my salary.
8:57
And I just didn't feel like I wanted that. I just was like, "What is wrong with me that I'm, like, saying no?" I kept pulling myself out of all of these interviews that I had willingly applied for.
9:07
So I don't think that would have happened so easily if I hadn't gone through that experience. Yeah.
9:13
I, I agree, and I'll, I wanna share, too, just because I think this is really, um, helpful to be c- totally transparent about how it goes down or how it went down for each one of us.
9:24
I, too, had an offer that would, like... It was, like, 50 to 75%, not percent, like 50,000 to 1,000 more dollars a year in my salary with- Yeah... like, an equity stake. Sure. And I had a conversation with the...
9:41
And it was a VP of marketing. You know, I'd been a senior director. It was, it was a, the use case was exactly where I was coming from. It was like, yeah, geospatial data with a security use case.
9:53
Like, you don't find that every day. Yeah. And, uh,
9:57
I had this conversation with this dude who was, like, in the C-suite, and he cared about the differentiation, and the vibe was ju- Like, I literally could have gotten it. I nailed it. He liked me.
10:07
I was like, I know how to play this conversation. Sure. Afterwards, they were like, "You wanna speak to the director of finance?" And I was like, "Nah, not really." [laughs] Like- Yeah... uh, it was, uh, you know.
10:21
And I think about that, I think about that from time to time, but I just, like, didn't wanna do it, and that's, that's another decision in the process towards taking this leap of faith that's, like, it's wild.
10:34
You wouldn't have, you wouldn't have been where you are, right? So I, I think about the last couple of positions that I said no to. I'm like, I would've, I would've stayed.
10:41
I would've just stayed there and been unhappy, and I kept imagining that I was going to be 65 years old editing people's bios.
10:50
And this is important for anyone who works in a law firm, is that often, depending on your position and depending on which type of group of lawyers you're supporting, like, fixing their bio winds up being, like, the most important thing you can do, even though it is not important at all.
11:04
It's like this, one of those things where, like, it has to get done, but it doesn't actually move the needle, and we all know that, and yet it becomes this, like, urgent sense of, like, timing and...
11:14
And so anytime I tell that story that I imagined that was going to be my life, and that's why I really quit, they're all like, "Yes." Like, [laughs] "Yeah, we understand."
11:24
I'm being a little facetious because there's so many more things that a business developer can do for a lawyer, but there's also a lot of shitty, stupid things that you wind up doing, and that's one of them.
11:32
So you guys are focused on professional service companies.
11:36
You're coming from a pretty, like, stodgy, big law environment where historically, the ways people bring in new business are things where women haven't always been- Mm-hmm... welcome. Yep. Maybe still not welcome.
11:51
Golf courses, country clubs, like, old school networks. So how do you guys coach women to build, like, strong client relationships outside of those older models? Yeah.
12:04
So, so many of our tips and tricks that we learned when we were in big law I just got tired, like I got tired of them.
12:13
And essentially what wind up happening is when we first launched, we had no clients, we had no money, and I wanted to try those tactics out myself, right? So I'm not going to golf. I don't know how to golf.
12:26
I don't want to golf. It's not something that interests me. And I essentially at this point had nothing to [chuckles] lose and just like pretty much everything to gain.
12:34
And so for me personally, I started writing on LinkedIn and reaching out to people.
12:38
And if anyone who's been in a support staff where you're not the, the revenue driver, like the accountant is, or the lawyer is, or the salesperson is, there was not a lot of contact with the client specifically.
12:49
Your client was the lawyer. And so... But this was the first time now that I was going to be in a sales position, and the, the message had always been, it's really big and, like, bad and scary out there.
13:00
And also, you're not face to face with a client, so, like, you don't really know... Like, the tactics you're recommending as a business developer in-house, you don't really know 'cause you're not facing the client.
13:12
So I know what works 'cause... And it works. The golf course is what works, and, like, late-night martinis is what works, and that might be so.
13:19
So when we first launched, I didn't have any clients, [chuckles] and so I'm like, "I just have to try things out myself."
13:25
So I start writing on LinkedIn, and at this point, this is now more than three years ago, I have 500 connections. So I just start connecting with people. And now we launched the business.
13:35
I w- wanted to make sure that once I became a vendor, that people still wanted to talk to me, so I started to build up my connections. Then I started writing content that I thought would resonate with the legal audience,
13:47
and reaching out to people, and being real, and being authentic, and offering gift cards. And for the most part, everything I did in our first year of business was virtual, and it started to work.
14:01
And so I don't like to offer tips that I don't try myself, and so now I get to be able to say, "This is what worked when I was in Big Law, but this is also what worked for me to build my book, and this is what works for my clients."
14:15
And those tactics aren't just networking on the golf course. It's you can do it one-to-one, right? Maybe if you don't like going to a conference, maybe you go...
14:25
Instead of going to one every quarter 'cause your business development team told you, you just go to one a year, right? And you make it count, and however that works for you.
14:34
So essentially, it's a love a lot of virtual networking, a lot of virtual marketing, but it still has to be connecting with people on an individual basis, with people you like.
14:44
'Cause if you're gonna spend time away from your friends, from your family, it has to be with clients that at least align with you somehow, right? At least that's, it's more enjoyable for me.
14:55
And the way to do that is sometimes is also by sharing, like, what it's like to work with you. Who are you as a person? Put up those stories on LinkedIn.
15:02
And so the weirder I got on LinkedIn, [chuckles] the louder I was, the more authentic I was, the more opportunities came to me, and people saw that.
15:11
And then I've been able to share those stories with other people as well, so that they can do it for themselves.
15:17
You mentioned building a book, and I think this is a really important concept for women, whether you're inside a professional service firm or building your own business.
15:26
Can you talk about, I guess, first, why it's important to build a book of business when you're inside- Yeah...
15:31
a firm, and then obviously building a book of business is sort of like the roster of clients when you're outside. Yeah.
15:36
So a lot of the firms that I would work in, some of the lawyers wound up being, like, service partners to the rainmakers, and historically, that might have been that the most, most of the men were the rainmakers, and then the women were the, like, workers or the support staff.
15:50
And in order to have more autonomy and in order to be able to have more decision-making power, more flexibility, if you own your book, if you have control over the revenue that you're bringing in, instead of just supporting people all the time, you have so much more power in- in- in influence.
16:10
Also, depending on how your firm is structured, there might be more leverage to the amount of money that you bring in, right? Like every... Kind of we all know that.
16:17
There's like points and, and different things like that. But so much of those, so much of building your book gives you power, control, influence to take with you kind of wherever you go next.
16:29
And so many lawyers will come to us, or so many professional services experts will come to us and say, like, "I,
16:36
I've been doing this for so long, but, like, I'm just servicing other people's business, and I'm literally, like, chained to my desk."
16:42
And the only way that they're going to be able to get out from underneath that is to build their own revenue structure inside the firms. Super helpful.
16:50
Can you tell us what that looks like in terms of going after new clients, and if there's any sort of important principles that you'd share with women who are trying to do that? Yeah.
17:00
So I mean, one of the things that's been really, like, fun is like use your, like, interest to your advantage. So I had a more junior
17:11
lawyer who went to this, like, mommy and me, like, group at a, like a, at a place, at a playgroup, and there was a couple of her clients were also... had similarly situated children in terms of their age.
17:26
And so I'm like, "Why don't you just invite her to, to go?" And so that was one way. And so they did, right? And so the two of them went with their, their babies to this, like, toddler mommy and me class.
17:36
And that worked for her, and it's one thing that she did that was different from every other lawyer, right? How are you going to show up in a way that's going to be differentiated? We hear that all the time.
17:47
So in order to do that, you have to do a lot of the things that I think women do kind of... Well, I was gonna say naturally, but we've been conditioned to, to do, which is like be thoughtful, be considerate, right?
18:00
Thinking about other people. We do that all the time, and so if we start to apply that to what can our client... What can I add to my client? How can I be unreasonable in my hospitality, right?
18:10
I'm in the middle of reading that book right now. So I have somebody who is... Their client just became the CEO of a company, and we are going to, like, commission some, like-... handwritten art for this person.
18:22
Um, this person does, like, this, like, fancy art, uh, and we're gonna commission that, and that's like something to lean into that maybe other people aren't doing. It's like how can you be thoughtful?
18:31
How can you learn more about that client, that contact, that prospect? Checking in with them, um, doing things that that person might like.
18:39
I think that that, I think that that's good advice, and I think the idea of, one, leaning into some-- Like, we have some conditioned and natural strengths for sales. They're just never framed in that way.
18:53
Um, so that's important. And then the second one is just being creative about developing relationships.
19:00
I love your emphasis on sales is so, and particularly in the professional service space, so much about relationships. Yeah.
19:08
And it's, uh, that relationship blossoms and grows if you're outside of an office, outside of a work setting. It's kind of the distinction. That's why, you know, country clubs exist.
19:19
And but we can take-- we can go to mommy groups, right? Like, we can do other, make other successions, particularly when our clients are women too. Yeah. And then it's like move on.
19:28
And, you know, I don't wanna leave out the professional women who aren't mothers. There are so many other opportunities just to connect just as women. Mm-hmm.
19:37
We've had people go to, like, yoga classes or, like, there's someone who was like, "I'm learning how to knit, and there's like a, like a workshop. Do you wanna come with me?"
19:45
And they, somebody-- I have another client who did that, and there's just so many different ways that you can be thoughtful.
19:51
And in this point, it doesn't necessarily matter, right, if you're a man or a woman, but it takes a lot of touches. And I'm like, "Don't touch me," right?
20:01
But it takes a lot of interactions to get to a point where somebody trusts you. Think about any relationship that we have built. It used to be, like, five to seven interactions before you got to a sale.
20:14
Now, it's more like 10 to 18 interactions, and those can include, like, an email back and forth. And I actually would caveat 10 to 18 before you even get to a pitch.
20:23
And that takes, if you're doing that once a month, it's two years. Like, it's a long time. At least for professional services, it's, that's how much time it takes to get to that point.
20:34
And so if you can be thoughtful, if you can stand out from what everybody else is doing, if you're gonna send, like, a piece of content, like, say why you're [chuckles] sending the piece of content.
20:43
Everything you do has to connect for that person, and being really thoughtful in being relationship-focused is going to set you apart from everyone else.
20:52
I wonder for folks who are thinking about starting their own f- you know, firm- Yeah...
20:57
are there anything you see that professional services are consistently missing or, like, some low-hanging fruit that you would say these are missed opportunities that make a big impact?
21:10
I have some biased views on, like, if you're gonna go to market, say some- like, say something different, and try not to be... I think so many, law firms in particular, there's a big race for second, right?
21:24
Like, let somebody else decide it, and then, like, we'll just come in and kind of mirror or mimic what they've said. And I think there's a big opportunity to,
21:33
to stand out and say something that other companies aren't saying and speak more to the needs of what you think people actually need.
21:42
And so I think a lot of where we at Stage have been able to come in is that we're saying, "Okay, we know that women are underrepresented in terms of bringing in revenue at law firms, and so we speak to them specifically."
21:53
There's just generally underrepresented voices in law firms historically, and so one of the things that we have done in the past is to, like, offer free business development sessions for them.
22:03
We know that parents are underrepresented in terms of support when they come back from parental leave, so we give them free bu- business development sessions.
22:09
Like, all of that is, like, time and money out of our pocket, but we believe in providing those resources for people, and I think that makes us different. I don't see other legal marketing companies doing that.
22:21
And so for us, that's one way to show up in a way that's saying, "We care." We're not just saying we care about women because we're a women-owned business.
22:29
We're literally offering people something that they can hold onto, and it's money out of our pocket, and it's time out of our pocket to s- to support what we're saying. So I think that's, like, another thing.
22:39
If you're gonna say one thing, then you gotta back it up, and I think people want that right now when trust is eroding everywhere, right? If you're gonna run around and say that we care about certain things, prove it.
22:53
Yeah, I think, I think that's really useful. I, I agree that the relationships are about trust, you know, and it just, you know, going into it with the understanding that it takes time.
23:04
Like, trust and time go hand in hand, and that's just part of the equation. But if you're making the original connection from an authentic place, the likelihood of it being a long-term relationship is, is so much higher.
23:19
Mm-hmm. And I think that's a really good reminder for everyone, myself included. It's like, don't try to, to cover all your bases.
23:26
Just be authentic, identify the gaps that you see, focus on those, and then the people who, who are the same and see the same and, and are trying to sort of swim in the same direction will, will follow. Yeah.
23:39
It just takes so long, and that's frustrating, particularly when you're like, "I'm doing everything right," right? Or, "I feel like I'm doing everything right. Does it even matter?"
23:47
It's just, just like a long, it's a long game. It's such a long game. And the more that I have led authentically and with kindness and empathy, the more clients have found me.
23:58
And, like, that's a, that's a marketer's dream, right? You're like, "I just put out content, and people contact me." That's what you want. [chuckles] That's literally your dream. Yes. Yeah.
24:07
[chuckles] That, that sums up marketing pretty well. Right. Well, this has been really helpful.
24:14
I know we're talking to a lot of women who are thinking about going out on their own, and this will provide not only some great insight for them, but also an introduction to you and Stage as well. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
24:25
Can you tell folks where they can find you? Well, I'm always playing on LinkedIn, so you can find me on LinkedIn, or they can visit us at our website, which is stage.guide.
24:34
And so we offer business development sessions for any professional who has to build their own book of business. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time. It was a pleasure having you on. Thank you.
FemmeFactor
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